At this point, this cartoon pretty much sums it up for me:
I realize my environment often aims me toward the right side of issues, but I really do try to see all sides of any issue before forming opinions. At this point though, other views of this problem feel very hypocritical to me.I don't understand why illegal immigrants (i.i.'s) aren't generally deported, especially if they haven't been here long. We are talking about people who begin their American experience by willingly and knowingly breaking the law. I can see that deportation could be complicated if someone has been here a while, but shouldn't we deport them anyway, because they broke the law, or at the very least examine their time in the U.S. to see if they've tried to "get along and play nicely with others" while they've been here.
If an i.i. has birthed children here, I get that their children are citizens of the U.S. and that's great, but if there is no one suitable to take care of said children in this country until their parents can enter in an appropriate fashion, can we not offer to send their American children back to their country with them?
And what is the deal with all the government provided benefits and rights i.i.'s already receive?! And lots of folks are trying to drum up more?! That feels like a total slap in the face to anyone who goes through the bother of entering this country legally!
If A robber breaks into my house, I don't put him up in the guest bedroom and feed him at my table. I do my best to force him out of my home (violently if necessary), and I call the proper law enforcement agency. People who've already proven their disregard for our laws and authority figures are not the kind of people I want for neighbors. Now if the same hypothetical person were to knock on my front door and ask for entry to my home and a place to stay or food to eat, I would consider it.
I have heard that the immigration process is flawed and favors Europeans and middle to upper class kinds of people. If that is the case, then I agree that that's a problem. So why don't we focus on changing the immigration laws? I don't think the problem is solved by rewarding anyone who forces entry into the country.
The other argument I hear in favor of granting rights to i.i.'s is that they are willing to work for peanuts which keeps food and other prices low. For example, some orchard owners employ i.i.'s to harvest their fruit and pay them next-to-nothing, under the table. Therefore they don't have to charge so much for their fruit.
That argument really irritates me. For one thing, allowing that to continue rewards the law-breakers again. How can anyone employing people legally expect to compete with those that do not? I'm not in love with the idea of paying $10 for a pound of apples, but I will do it if it means that everyone employed to bring my apples to the store was rewarded in an above board manner.
The other problem with 'pay 'em next-to-nothing, under the table' style of thinking is that these people are not making a living. Working for that amount of money could not possibly sustain life in our society, so whether they are receiving government help or perhaps stealing what they need, we are still paying them.
I would love to see numbers on what we pay out to i.i.'s in government funded benefits vs. what they save us by working for low wages. I wonder if we're really coming out ahead. And even if we aren't, I think it would be worth the cost to ensure that industries are fair and truthful in their manner of employment.
My sweet sister-in-law came to us from another country after many months of red-tape. And looking at all the time, expense, and trouble that she endured in order to come to the U.S. and eventually naturalize, if I were her I'd be somewhat jaded, or maybe I'd just feel like a fool for playing the game by the rules when it seams so much easier to avoid all that.
At any rate, I would appreciate some imput. I cannot see another side here, and wish to be filled in on what I'm missing. So if you've an argument in favor of granting rights and privelages to i.i.'s please speak up and educate me.
18 comments:
I agree with you whole heartedly! The biggest part of the problem is that people are confused by what is a right and what is a priviledge. They think it is a basic human right to be an American, this is not true it is an earned priviledge.
Another problem with paying under the table (and it drives me crazy) is that these people don't pay any taxes. Thay are not even contributing to the pot that they are drawing government services out of. There was a time when I used WIC and Medicaid but I was still expected to pay my taxes and contribute. I wasn't contributing a lot but I have more than made up for what I used in the time since going off those programs.
I agree. There has to be a better way. My husband works for the school district down here and there are some schools who most of the children come from I.I homes, they do not speak english, so we have to provide spanish speaking teachers or helpers to have these kids learn. I have gone to get government help before, without it I don't know how we would have afforded our 2nd child, but we went to get aid again and were refused, yet the lady right before me was non-english speaking and she was in getting her cards for the help. I pay my taxes, we follow the law, and yet the law favors ii. Erg. there has got to be a better way!
I wish they'd come up with a solution because everyone on both sides are upset!! I agree with you on all points that you brought up...especially on the one for those who work really hard and go thru the motions of coming into this country legally...i.e. my parents adopting me.
"Working for that amount of money could not possibly sustain life in our society, so whether they are receiving government help or perhaps stealing what they need, we are still paying them."
A third option for them is that they aren't trying to 'sustain life' here, the money goes back home to pay for the rest of the family that doesn't live here and in doing so we send our monetary wealth away in a very similar yet slightly illegal way as farming out employment to 3rd world countries and sweat shops. And didn't we have a bit of a change in heart as to sweat shops in the U.S. and slave labor? I thought we decided when we left England that we didn't want to work as an 'indentured servant'...
Hey, I hope it’s ok if I jump in on this.
For starters I’d like to address the issue of deportation. The estimates on the number of illegal immigrants are in the millions. That makes deportation a logistical impossibility. How does one go about identifying the millions of people that are here illegally? The man power and money it would cost just to identify them is staggering. Then how would one successfully transport that many people, especially if it is against their will. None of this makes illegal immigration right. But I hope that it maybe sheds some light on why little is done about the issue.
I remember it was a few years ago, Bush wanted to get a bill passed that would address the immigration problem. Forgive me if I can’t remember the particulars but I believe it offered the following. If those who were here illegally would come forward they would be giving temporary citizenship or worker status, they could then work towards becoming full citizens. They would not be deported or prosecuted if the were law abiding. This bill was shot down by the right. Now I often identify with the right but I think they dropped the ball on this one. They called it amnesty. Wether or not it was is a mater of how you define amnesty. I personally don’t think it was, I think it was merciful, kind, and plausible. Anyway the bill was defeated and what occurred was amnesty. With no bill to deal with the issue the problem was unaddressed. And so more and more people illegally cross the border into our country while millions others continue living here illegally. Nothing is done. There are a few that are caught and deported but not many compared to all who are left. And the larger issue remains, how do we solve this problem?
I don’t know if I have any answers. I think the bill mentioned above would have been a good start. My heart goes out to the people who wish to live a better life. Though they may be from Mexico, or other places on this globe, they share the same dream that I have. A dream given to me by the nation that I live in. America has always tried to be the land of freedom and opportunity. It has not always lived up to that dream but what makes this land great is that it tries to live up to it. America has come a long way. We have further yet to go. I cannot begrudge anyone who wants to be part of that effort. The desire to better oneself, ones family, and ones community is at the very core of what it means to be an American. To reappropriate a sentiment from Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. The America that I want to live in is one that accepts a person based on the content of their character and not on the color of their skin or where they may have been born.
Anyway that’s my two cents on the issue.
Nice topic! I dig it. I am going to present a somewhat different viewpoint. Please don't send your friends to kill me. It's JUST AN OPINION. I have no desire to argue with anyone. That being said:
1. Much of the reason there are so many i.i's is because we accept such a small number of immigrants into America legally. Hence the problems and red tape Amanda enountered. I personally think that by raising the numbers of people we allow to immigrate, it would decrease the numbers of people who will illegally immigrate.
2. I know a few illegal immigrants and believe me, their life is NOT easy. They work, just like we do, to feed their kids. And while it sounds easy to just deport them and if someone here can't care for their kids, send them back also. The biggest reason they are here is because Mexico is a horrible place to live. Breaking the law to get to America is far preferable to living in Mexico. So they are then faced with the choice to either leave their kids here, knowing they may never see them again, or take their kids back to a life of squalor. Pretty tough choice to make as a parent. Just because they are in America illegally does not mean they love their children less or somehow want less for the next generation. While I understand your feelings about rewarding the law breakers for working low paying jobs that no one else wants, at the same time, most of them want to work. They really do. It's hard to believe, but in general the amount of immigrants who don't want to work and would rather just collect government benefits is pretty proportionate to the amount of Americans who don't want to work and would rather just collect government benefits.
3.Immigrants create jobs. Their purchases increase the demand for labor.
4. I just feel like America achieved its greatness by being a nation of immigrants. Which I think brings me back to why I think increasing the amount of people allowed to immigrate, we also increase our diversity and cultural tolerance. As far as kids needing help to learn English, it's unfair to assume that just because a child speaks Spanish, he is illegal. This is America. That kid who can't speak English yet may be the one who discovers a cure for cancer. Plus, he's a kid and as far as I am concerned ALL kids deserve a chance, not just the ones who were born in America and speak fluent English.
This is more or less kind of how I feel. If I didn't have a freaking migraine, this might be more coherent. I am not trying to argue with you AT ALL, I was just presenting maybe a different viewpoint. If we all had the exact same opinion, this would be a boring place right?
Also, you are an excellent writer! Seriously. You are very good at it.
Also...lanverse? Excellent post. I loved the Martin Luther King quote, it pretty much says it all.
Thank you Tracy, and to echo what you said I’d like to mention that everything I wrote was also meant in a spirit of friendship and discussion.
From reading all the posts I’m sure that everyone here is welcoming to anyone wishing to enter our country. I’m sure we all just wish that it was done legally. I think we all want to help our fellow man but we also want them to follow the law. That’s one aspect of this issue that makes it so tricky to work out.
I agree, that is what makes it so hard. I just wish somehow it could be made easier for people to legally immigrate, therefore hopefully reducing the illegal immigration rate. It's very tricky. I think I feel that immigration laws need to be reworked somehow.
The anger and annoyance about this issue has nothing to do with where someone is from or the color of their skin. It is simply about people ILLEGALLY coming to this country. Anyone who wants to come legally is welcome, diversity is what makes this country great! Yes it may be a difficult process and frustrating too but it certainly seperates those who want to truly be Americans from those who just want a free ride. Obviously we can't deport all current illegals because there are too many but why can't something be done to stop this in the future.
I pretty much agree with everyone.... There is definitely a problem. What I would like to see done is similar to the bill that Bush attempted to pass. It should just be easier for them to gain citizenship or some kind of working status. I would just like to see them paying their taxes and contributing to the society that they are living in. Most I.I.'s don't come here to laze around. They are willing to work and willing to work hard. I think that they deserve decent pay for that, which they DON'T receive.
It feels like such an impossible situation. I don't really have any hope that it can be resolved. There are too many differing opinions and hardheaded politicians.
Thanks a ton for all your input. I appreciate everyone speaking up about their thoughts and feelings. Just as I was hoping, I've learned a little bit from this discussion. But most importantly I have been reminded to have a little more compassion for others.
I think Liz did a great job of summing up my feelings at this point. I hope she's wrong about not being able to fix this problem, but I don't think she is.
I'm still very frustrated about all of the law breaking and wish immigration laws could be the focus of lawmaker's discussions. In the meantime I will be grateful that I was born in this country and my right to be here isn't disputed.
The lazy immigrants don't immigrate. They're too lazy to. Those who do immigrate, do work hard. There is just a need to honor, uphold and sustain the law. But, how many of those born here in the USA do that? There are problems across the board. I just would like to take the perceived racism out of Illegal immigration. It is not is is perceived because of our neighboring country. I apply it to all countries. I would whole-heartedly obey the laws to go to another country.
I agree w/ Tracy, just because you are ESL doesn't make you illegal. I fully support teaching English. I just have a hard time with those who are not willing to learn to speak "American", i mean English.
I feel I must apologize. It was not my intention in any way to insinuate that any of the comments made by anyone here where in any way racist. I look at the first comment I made and I think that I may have inadvertently done so. I’m sorry if this is the case. I should have worded my remarks better. I was trying to stay true to quote made by Dr. King. He was speaking about his wish that people would be judged by the content of their character and not on the color of their skin. The point I wanted to draw from that quote was the thought about “character” and not the thought about race. I wanted to say with all the illegal immigrants we should look at their character. I think that the majority of them are faced with severe challenges. They and their families face hardships that I can’t imagine. They see a chance to make things better in America. For whatever reason they feel that they can’t go through the legal process to become citizens. Perhaps they feel they can’t wait that long, perhaps they fear that they wont be accepted. I don’t know. So they enter the country illegally. Now this is where things get conflicted, especially for me. I think that a lot of them have good intentions, some don’t, but I believe most do. Yet despite all their good intentions they are still breaking the laws of the land they are trying to live in. I don’t know what to do with that. It’s like when a child makes you breakfast in bed. The thought is nice but the food is inedible and the kitchen is a mess. Now granted this is different but it’s kinda how I look at it.
Once again I apologize if I gave offense. It was not my intention to do so but I understand if I did. That is my fault. For some this may be a racial issue but I think it is clear from what everyone has said that they are upset by the actions of those entering this country illegally and not the race of those people. If I have offended I hope you can forgive me.
Thank you.
I was not offended. I quite liked what you said. Also like the analogy of the kids bringing breakfast in bed. Good point.
I was just saying that a lot of pro-illegals protested at the capitol and used racism as their basis.
I've been as clueless as you. I wasn't offended.
Well I wasn't sure if I had or not. I was afraid that I had. It was not my intention, so I thought it best to clear that up and apologize to anyone that I might have offended.
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